205 replies to this topic

[Bail o' Lies]

Well remember man once again this was all Kishi cause Sasuke was oh so great and that no one and I mean no one is meant to hate Sasuke and think he is just some poor little poor little boy cause again Kishi cared just for Sasuke and what he wanted, well that and all the other Uchiha as well.

 

I mean one thing I like with Kojima was a bad guy is a bad guy I mean look at Volgun guy was a nut case, I mean it just shows that Kishi is a bad writer and should not do stories.

Kishimoto had a problem that is "that no one is born evil, its society that makes someone evil." In other world almost every villain (except Gato) in the manga is evil because of the flaws in the ninja system. So almost every time a villain is defeat we must see a flashback of their tragic past so we can feel incredible sorrow for their death, and lament what good they could have done it society had help them instead of screwing them over. This is actually endemic to most shouen manga as most of manga of the genre have large number of casts are built off of former rivals and villains turned good after the main casts beats them. The thing is that different between most of other mangaka and kishi is that. The other mangaka still have people who are just genuine bastards who just need to be killed in their stories while kishi everyone is basically 'this'.

 

How this relates to a problem in the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke?  It is he felt more need to explain and justify Sasuke's revolution plan (that we know is not going to happen) instead of explaining to Sasuke and the audience what Naruto's plan was. Since these are the last chapters and the final battle and it would be nice if Naruto can explain how he is going to fix the system that been an obvious problem since Chapter 1. So literally from a literary stand point what they are talking about in this battle is a waste of time.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 03 October 2016 - 03:38 AM.

[Shadow1275]

Kishimoto had a problem that is "that no one is born evil, its society that makes someone evil." In other world almost every villain (except Gato) in the manga is evil because of the flaws in the ninja system. So almost every time a villain is defeat we must see a flashback of their tragic past so we can feel incredible sorrow for their death, and lament what good they could have done it society had help them instead of screwing them over. This is actually endemic to most shouen manga as most of manga of the genre have large number of casts built off of former rivals and villains turned good after the main casts beats them. The thing is that different between most of other mangaka and kishi is that. The other mangaka still have people who are just genuine bastard who just need to be killed in their stories while kishi everyone is basically 'this'.

 

How this relates to a problem in the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke?  It is he felt more need to explain and justify Sasuke's revolution plan (that we know is not going to happen) instead of explaining to Sasuke and the audience what Naruto's plan was. Since these are the last chapters and the final battle and it would be nice if Naruto can explain how he is going to fix the system that been an obvious problem since Chapter 1. So literally from a literary stand point what they are talking about in this battle is a waste of time.

the biggest thing too is that Sasuke's revolution idea  MAKES SENSE If it to be believed that the shinobi system caused these ppl to go bananas then the real solution is to overthrow the system and start a new one. In other words REBEL. This is a major reason why the ending is bullsh it. The Main character's solution si WORSE THAN THE FINAL VILLAIN'S SOLUTION. IN FACT, HAD SASUKE NOT VOWED TO FORCE PPL TO BE PART OF HIS REVOLUTION HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE TRUE HERO.

[Bail o' Lies]

the biggest thing too is that Sasuke's revolution idea  MAKES SENSE If it to be believed that the shinobi system caused these ppl to go bananas then the real solution is to overthrow the system and start a new one. In other words REBEL. This is a major reason why the ending is bullsh it. The Main character's solution si WORSE THAN THE FINAL VILLAIN'S SOLUTION. IN FACT, HAD SASUKE NOT VOWED TO FORCE PPL TO BE PART OF HIS REVOLUTION HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE TRUE HERO.

Revolutions cause lots of violence and death. Also it is unnecessary in the case of the Ninja World. Like I said Kishimoto failed to properly explain what Naruto plan was. Which obviously if we looked at how they story developed since the beginning was reform the Ninja system. The problem is Kishimoto didn't lay it out or explain it so all we are left is listening to Sasuke's plan. Naruto already had a lot of influnce as the heart of the ninja army or what ever he is. If he used that properly to influence the other villages as well as his own he could have removed a lot of problem with the system. Then the "Will of Fire" and the next generation continues enacting more reform. Which is basically what has been happening in konoha since the first hokage. Once again kishimoto didn't explain it nor care so Naruto has no plan so nothing is accomplish in the end. Then again doing nothing is at least better then Sasuke's plan

 

Sasuke's plan. If one were to start a revolution to set up a new system. One would need to think long and hard about all the details. Instead Sasuke plan was first to kill all the hokages and Naruto so one could oppose him. Then become the sole kage who "dwells in the shadow." Where he would exist and kill anyone who disagrees with him. And somehow this would create his peaceful world. By making everyone live in fear of him, and killing a lot of people. That's it. Really, that is it. This is not a good plan.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 02 October 2016 - 01:45 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Sasuke his one and only friend?!? Give me a break....

 

Yeah shall we do a list of his other friends? Like Gaara?

[Nostradamus]

 

Yeah shall we do a list of his other friends? Like Gaara?

Who's that?

You mean Sasuke, right?

[Phantom_999]

Eh, well who cares?

[Frankie]

 
Yeah shall we do a list of his other friends? Like Sasuke?

There. Fixed. You misspelled Sasuke.

[Phantom_999]

Yes, how could I be so blind?

[TheFirstEvil100]

Kishimoto had a problem that is "that no one is born evil, its society that makes someone evil." In other world almost every villain (except Gato) in the manga is evil because of the flaws in the ninja system. So almost every time a villain is defeat we must see a flashback of their tragic past so we can feel incredible sorrow for their death, and lament what good they could have done it society had help them instead of screwing them over. This is actually endemic to most shouen manga as most of manga of the genre have large number of casts built off of former rivals and villains turned good after the main casts beats them. The thing is that different between most of other mangaka and kishi is that. The other mangaka still have people who are just genuine bastard who just need to be killed in their stories while kishi everyone is basically 'this'.

 

How this relates to a problem in the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke?  It is he felt more need to explain and justify Sasuke's revolution plan (that we know is not going to happen) instead of explaining to Sasuke and the audience what Naruto's plan was. Since these are the last chapters and the final battle and it would be nice if Naruto can explain how he is going to fix the system that been an obvious problem since Chapter 1. So literally from a literary stand point what they are talking about in this battle is a waste of time.

That is true man again its why both Kojima and Toriyama are better than Kishi as they made bad guys ones thazt were evil for being evil, I just wish I knew why Kishi nwas so damned that every bad guy needed to have a sad past.

 

I mean I'm going to bring up MGS again but lets look at all the main bosses that we had to fight in all the games as not all of them had a tragic background to say why they were evil.

 

Metal Gear Soild 1: Now when you look at who is in there we have all of FoxHound and Gray Fox, now out of all of them we only feel sorry for just two of them that have a tragic back story Gray Fox and Sniper Wolf and really I don't have to say why I mean hearing Wolf's past is tragic and how the real world is like and she was a child when it happened.

 

Metal Gear Soild 2: with this again only two to feel sorry for I mean look a Fatman no tragic fast to why he is crazy he just want to be the best bomber and will kill all to make it come true, same with Vamp both kill cause they want too

 

Metal Gear Soild 3: with this the only bad guy is Volgon and we all know why, the others like the Cobra unit are following the orders they got from the boss and the Boss her self is just a spy,

 

Metal Gear Soild 4: The B&B all are victims of war as each suffered from war when they were children which as it was said in the game destroyed their minds.

[Bail o' Lies]

That is true man again its why both Kojima and Toriyama are better than Kishi as they made bad guys ones thazt were evil for being evil, I just wish I knew why Kishi nwas so damned that every bad guy needed to have a sad past.

 

I mean I'm going to bring up MGS again but lets look at all the main bosses that we had to fight in all the games as not all of them had a tragic background to say why they were evil.

 

Metal Gear Soild 1: Now when you look at who is in there we have all of FoxHound and Gray Fox, now out of all of them we only feel sorry for just two of them that have a tragic back story Gray Fox and Sniper Wolf and really I don't have to say why I mean hearing Wolf's past is tragic and how the real world is like and she was a child when it happened.

 

Metal Gear Soild 2: with this again only two to feel sorry for I mean look a Fatman no tragic fast to why he is crazy he just want to be the best bomber and will kill all to make it come true, same with Vamp both kill cause they want too

 

Metal Gear Soild 3: with this the only bad guy is Volgon and we all know why, the others like the Cobra unit are following the orders they got from the boss and the Boss her self is just a spy,

 

Metal Gear Soild 4: The B&B all are victims of war as each suffered from war when they were children which as it was said in the game destroyed their minds.

 All the villains are evil because of the ninja system and it needs to have either major reforms or outright removed could be consider a major theme in Naruto for a long time. The problem is that Kishimoto got side tracked by that "cycle of hatred" crap. The thing is that the "cycle of hatred" really isn't a part of Naruto's character or his themes. The "flaws in the ninja system" and "a need to reform it?" Yes. Revenge? No. Hell, the one time he was out for revenge he stopped and instead listened to the bad guy's story of how his dog died. But the "cycle of hatred" and the "obsession with revenge can destroy your life" is apart of Sasuke's themes. So that just another part of Sasuke taking over the manga because kishi makes him evil but not too evil and then tries to justify why he is evil.

[Legend054]

 

I didn't expect that Sakura's hand would the last one here. That's actually very significant because Naruto is about to fulfill the lifelong promise he made to her. This is probably the last NS moment we are gonna get.

[catsi563]

Not just the last one but the hands held in a loving fashion to finally finish the rasnengan. fairly symbolic in that way.

[Phantom_999]

To bad it means nothing compared to "SASUKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Edited by Phantom_999, 04 October 2016 - 05:00 PM.

[Yyubie]

@Legend054

So she use both hands while the other only one.

 

BTW nice analyze there for pointing out whose hands each of it belongs to.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but ... Sakura always known to embrace Naruto with both hands open arm, during end of Pain arc and during fake confession, but yeah ... this doesn't anything compare to what abominations about to be animated ...

[ichigo500]

Not just the last one but the hands held in a loving fashion to finally finish the rasnengan. fairly symbolic in that way.

Yes, it's pretty symbolic, I personally see that in a lot of anime,and it's generally the love interest who does that (not the rasengan though XD)

But, here, it does mean nothing, because HINATAAAA...

 

To bad it means nothing compare to " SASUKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

ah yeah and SASUKEEEE !! 

[Shadow1275]

To bad it means nothing compare to " SASUKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

There's logic

 

and then there's SasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasuke

[T XD]

There's logic

 

and then there's SasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasukeSasuke

What the ?... Your Sasukes' nearly got out from the right part of my laptop XD

[TheFirstEvil100]

Have no fear guys Time machine is almost done then I can go back to make sure this mess never happens.

[Nostradamus]

Have no fear guys Time machine is almost done then I can go back to make sure this mess never happens.

So you're the creator of time travel?

Then:

[Bail o' Lies]

 

I didn't expect that Sakura's hand would the last one here. That's actually very significant because Naruto is about to fulfill the lifelong promise he made to her. This is probably the last NS moment we are gonna get.

Well the director of this episode was the hated (by nH anyway) Yuka. This was probably a middle finger to the ending, and the last. By basically going. Yes, Naruto has had a lot friends that have supported him through out the series not just Hinata/Sasuke. And out of all of them. Sakura has been with him by his side for the longest, and is the most important.

 

Shadow separate that "Sasuke line" it is causing problems with people computers.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 04 October 2016 - 01:37 AM.