62 replies to this topic

[BlueStarSaber]

Well looks like So the supposed to be dead mist ninja is now a bad guy, geez can't invent their own original villains so they bring back a dead guy and make him one.

[BlueStarSaber]

 

You haven't watched the first Arc, I assume, else you would be forced to retract your statement. Even the first Arc post Boruto Movie of the manga has one, this comment is kind of silly. 

What you mean the arc with the root daughter with a tailed beast like creature that both get talk no justu and and the fat guy trying to eat the spoiled rich kid that looked similar to that filler in part one? Because they were so original for Naruto.

[AHK]

Not really many good villains. Obito and Pain were the best, mainly because they were more personal and impactful to Naruto himself. Pain could have been better if Nagano was able to fight himself. The use of the bodies as a proxy really served to dilute the personal fight with Naruto, which is why Obito was better. Obito was Naruto turned inside out, and he was there to combat Naruto physically, mentally, and emotionally in person. It was much more of a grudge match.

Madara, Kaguya, and Sasuke were all bad villains growing worse as they went. Sasuke specifically was terrible, his ideals made no sense, he was literally a watered down knock off of Madara, and was only strong because everything he had in his arsenal wasn't his, it was all power gifted to him by asspulls and plot convenience. His strength came off the back of others, his connection to Naruto was absolutely forced and cringe worthy, and the whole thing about Indra and Asura was a bs way to try and keep Sasuke level with Naruto, when it was clear Naruto was well and beyond Sasuke. Like the Juubi at one point actually saw the Sage within Naruto, clearly foreshadowing Naruto to be the next coming of Hagoromo, yet that gets retconned because Kishi had this ridiculous Uchiha fetish. Everything about Sasuke was terrible at the end, as was the rest of the story lol

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Not really many good villains. Obito and Pain were the best, mainly because they were more personal and impactful to Naruto himself. Pain could have been better if Nagano was able to fight himself. The use of the bodies as a proxy really served to dilute the personal fight with Naruto, which is why Obito was better. Obito was Naruto turned inside out, and he was there to combat Naruto physically, mentally, and emotionally in person. It was much more of a grudge match.

Madara, Kaguya, and Sasuke were all bad villains growing worse as they went. Sasuke specifically was terrible, his ideals made no sense, he was literally a watered down knock off of Madara, and was only strong because everything he had in his arsenal wasn't his, it was all power gifted to him by asspulls and plot convenience. His strength came off the back of others, his connection to Naruto was absolutely forced and cringe worthy, and the whole thing about Indra and Asura was a bs way to try and keep Sasuke level with Naruto, when it was clear Naruto was well and beyond Sasuke. Like the Juubi at one point actually saw the Sage within Naruto, clearly foreshadowing Naruto to be the next coming of Hagoromo, yet that gets retconned because Kishi had this ridiculous Uchiha fetish. Everything about Sasuke was terrible at the end, as was the rest of the story lol

They should have stuck solely with Hagaromo and the Jubi simply being "the one" Biju before being split (perhaps even an actual demon). That would have actually worked similarly to Ronin Warriors with Talpa and the Wise Man; the Wise Man defeats Talpa, then splits his power into the nine armors which are then imbued to nine individuals, who then fight Talpa (who has managed to seduce four of the armor bearers with promises of power and such) and even the only descendant of the Wise Man, and eventually manage to defeat him, with the descendant and four warriors turning against him as well.

[BlueStarSaber]

So given how Delta was a cyborg of sorts do anyone think that is the case with rest of the Kara members?

[Bail o' Lies]

So given how Delta was a cyborg of sorts do anyone think that is the case with rest of the Kara members?

The other agents were also cyborgs, the old man that didn't from what I recall. It is likely most of the villains of Boruto will have some tech power because kishi was using it as a testing bed for his sci-fi manga. Kara they use a mixture of cyborg tech and seals.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 30 March 2019 - 09:57 AM.

[BlueStarSaber]

The other agents were also cyborgs, the old man that didn't from what I recall. It is likely most of the villains of Boruto will have some tech power because kishi was using it as a testing bed for his sci-fi manga. Kara they use a mixture of cyborg tech and seals.

 

I still didn't really what was the point of the old man to be killed of just to show how bad kara was.

Part of me think that might be the case, but I do like the idea of Naruto and co facing villains that are tech base the problem is that his side shouldn't be tech base either 

[James S Cassidy]

Worst villain? Toneri.

This dude....the only reason why he was a "villain" was because he wanted Hinata and to push the NH narrative. He has no motivations, he has no purpose, he is not misunderstood....he was simply created to make NH canon.

How in the world can you make a villain JUST to push a pairing choice? How pathetic can you get?

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 April 2019 - 05:53 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Worst villain? Toneri.

This dude....the only reason why he was a "villain" was because he wanted Hinata and to push the NH narrative. He has no motivations, he is not purpose, he is not misunderstood....he was simply created to make NH canon.

How in the world can you make a villain JUST to push a pairing choice? How pathetic can you get?

 

As pathetic as Studio Pierrot and Shueisha taking advantage of Kishimoto losing his dad to push the narrative they felt would make them the most money only for it to HORRIBLY backfire on them so much?

[James S Cassidy]

 

As pathetic as Studio Pierrot and Shueisha taking advantage of Kishimoto losing his dad to push the narrative they felt would make them the most money only for it to HORRIBLY backfire on them so much?

Selfish. That is the best word to describe all of it. Selfish, Selfish people. NaruSaku should have been canon and they know it, but because they wanted to live their fantasy....the story gets destroyed.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Selfish. That is the best word to describe all of it. Selfish, Selfish people. NaruSaku should have been canon and they know it, but because they wanted to live their fantasy....the story gets destroyed.

 

And only NOW do they give a damn about what they did, but this is their dishwashing liquid, THEY SHOULD SOAK IN IT!!

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Worst villain? Toneri.

This dude....the only reason why he was a "villain" was because he wanted Hinata and to push the NH narrative. He has no motivations, he has no purpose, he is not misunderstood....he was simply created to make NH canon.

How in the world can you make a villain JUST to push a pairing choice? How pathetic can you get?

Yep, so they had to make the Byakugan not only appear relevant again, but also make it out to be the building block for the new "strongest doujutsu" despite all the hyping the Rinnegan got (and that the Sharingan actually displayed) and yet as far as I remember, the "Tenseigan" (pfft) didn't even DO anything important or impressive. It only gets worse when you consider the Boruto movie basically acts like the Tenseigan and Hamura never existed and goes right back to using the Rinnegan again with the antagonists, showing just how much of a pointless, expendable "plot point" The Last is.

And it only just kept poking more holes into things like how any of them could breathe in space, how Madara got to the moon to just take the Gedo statue from Toneri without a fight, why this chakra cannon was never used by Kumo or anyone in any previous wars, and so on.

 

[James S Cassidy]

Yep, so they had to make the Byakugan not only appear relevant again, but also make it out to be the building block for the new "strongest doujutsu" despite all the hyping the Rinnegan got (and that the Sharingan actually displayed) and yet as far as I remember, the "Tenseigan" (pfft) didn't even DO anything important or impressive. It only gets worse when you consider the Boruto movie basically acts like the Tenseigan and Hamura never existed and goes right back to using the Rinnegan again with the antagonists, showing just how much of a pointless, expendable "plot point" The Last is.

And it only just kept poking more holes into things like how any of them could breathe in space, how Madara got to the moon to just take the Gedo statue from Toneri without a fight, why this chakra cannon was never used by Kumo or anyone in any previous wars, and so on.

 

Naruto can be summed up as such

"The more you think about it, the worse it gets."

This is why I say that the only people who like this ending are NH and SS pairing fans. From villains whose only purpose is to push a fan service narrative to characters who only exist to service the main character and are so one dimensional they make Kristian Stewart look like an over dramatic actor, this series sucks. It was great in the beginning, it was okay to pretty good up to Pein Arc and then it all just falls apart in the back end and Boruto.

And all of it for a stupid pairing choice. Because "Hinata had to get her way."

Kishimoto said Naruto was about bonds....well, apparently not since the bond Naruto had before are abandoned for a c**-dumpster female and her fanbase. It is disgusting and the more you think the worse the series gets.

Why was the cannon built at all?
Where was Toneri during the events of the war?
How did ninja survive on the moon?
How is Naruto surviving on the moon?
How did Madara get to the moon to retrieve the Gedo Mazo?
How....who...where....why?

NOTHING is explained and most elements, if they do get resolved, is so anti-climatic that I am more inclined to believe the events of The Last Jedi than Naruto anymore.

And worse still when story elements from supported "canon" sources are abandoned entirely because "who cares about continuity, right?" Honestly, most of the issue could be forgiven if they just made a worth while ending, but they didn't. They gave us a half assed ending and then said "We will tell you later." No, you don't spend 15 years planning something only to tell us, the fans reading it, "we will tell you all later."

15 years and that's the ending? 15 years knowing they were going to create an ending to the series and they look at us like deer in headlights. "I was confused on how to end it."

Well, you people are terrible writers then. I am writing several books myself and I know how they end. Every single one I already have an ending planned. Sure, it MAY change or some things might sound better, but I at least have a direction on where my story is going.

It's sloppy. It is very skittish and sloppy. That's how you KNOW this whole thing was a retcon within itself. When they couldn't figure out how to end the series. Kishimoto at least knew the Sasuke and Naruto fight was last and he kept his word, but that's it. Nothing else was planned, nothing else was in thought and Kishimoto admits he literally just made it up as he went along.

No. No, no, no.

The fact that Toneri and Kaguya and some of these Kaguya descendant automatically show up out of nowhere not explaining where they have been this whole time is proof enough.

Hell, what would have been a BETTER ending is to have Toneri and the rest of them actually be the masterminds and THAT was the Fourth Shinobi War with Madara, not necessarily being a good guy, but finding out the plot and wanting power to defeat them. With Toneri and the like explaining that they bided their time till the world was in chaos and couldn't fight back.

Would it have been BS? Maybe, but still a better concept than what we have now.

 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 10 April 2019 - 04:34 PM.

[Derock]

Naruto can be summed up as such

"The more you think about it, the worse it gets."

This is why I say that the only people who like this ending are NH and SS pairing fans. From villains whose only purpose is to push a fan service narrative to characters who only exist to service the main character and are so one dimensional they make Kristian Stewart look like an over dramatic actor, this series sucks. It was great in the beginning, it was okay to pretty good up to Pein Arc and then it all just falls apart in the back end and Boruto.

And all of it for a stupid pairing choice. Because "Hinata had to get her way."

Kishimoto said Naruto was about bonds....well, apparently not since the bond Naruto had before are abandoned for a c**-dumpster female and her fanbase. It is disgusting and the more you think the worse the series gets.

Why was the cannon built at all?
Where was Toneri during the events of the war?
How did ninja survive on the moon?
How is Naruto surviving on the moon?
How did Madara get to the moon to retrieve the Gedo Mazo?
How....who...where....why?

NOTHING is explained and most elements, if they do get resolved, is so anti-climatic that I am more inclined to believe the events of The Last Jedi than Naruto anymore.

And worse still when story elements from supported "canon" sources are abandoned entirely because "who cares about continuity, right?" Honestly, most of the issue could be forgiven if they just made a worth while ending, but they didn't. They gave us a half assed ending and then said "We will tell you later." No, you don't spend 15 years planning something only to tell us, the fans reading it, "we will tell you all later."

15 years and that's the ending? 15 years knowing they were going to create an ending to the series and they look at us like deer in headlights. "I was confused on how to end it."

Well, you people are terrible writers then. I am writing several books myself and I know how they end. Every single one I already have an ending planned. Sure, it MAY change or some things might sound better, but I at least have a direction on where my story is going.

It's sloppy. It is very skittish and sloppy. That's how you KNOW this whole thing was a retcon within itself. When they couldn't figure out how to end the series. Kishimoto at least knew the Sasuke and Naruto fight was last and he kept his word, but that's it. Nothing else was planned, nothing else was in thought and Kishimoto admits he literally just made it up as he went along.

No. No, no, no.

The fact that Toneri and Kaguya and some of these Kaguya descendant automatically show up out of nowhere not explaining where they have been this whole time is proof enough.

Hell, what would have been a BETTER ending is to have Toneri and the rest of them actually be the masterminds and THAT was the Fourth Shinobi War with Madara, not necessarily being a good guy, but finding out the plot and wanting power to defeat them. With Toneri and the like explaining that they bided their time till the world was in chaos and couldn't fight back.

Would it have been BS? Maybe, but still a better concept than what we have now.

 

 

That would've been more enjoyable to look at but still might bring some holes, but hey, the whole "gods/aliens" being masterminds would be great, if it make some sense.

 

*Spoiler for my epic fic that I'm STILL trying to process: that was the main idea I was using for one of the clan members who will be the main villain and mastermind of the recent events of the Fourth Great War, the Last, Boruto, everything. I'm currently thinking that he has some sort of magical powers of manipulating people and their choices without them realizing until the last minute, using his subordinates as the "guides" of those he manipulated. Still trying to think of a name and visualizing his designs, but all I know is he's going to be like Hazama from BlazBlue, but worse.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

That would've been more enjoyable to look at but still might bring some holes, but hey, the whole "gods/aliens" being masterminds would be great, if it make some sense.

 

*Spoiler for my epic fic that I'm STILL trying to process: that was the main idea I was using for one of the clan members who will be the main villain and mastermind of the recent events of the Fourth Great War, the Last, Boruto, everything. I'm currently thinking that he has some sort of magical powers of manipulating people and their choices without them realizing until the last minute, using his subordinates as the "guides" of those he manipulated. Still trying to think of a name and visualizing his designs, but all I know is he's going to be like Hazama from BlazBlue, but worse.

 

Interesting idea. Though in the case of Hazama in BlazBlue, Derock, guy was BONKERS insane, especially with his desire to be revived as Susanoo later on.

 

Makes me think of how I am doing Madara for a revamp of Naruto: The Demon Within in that he has "true" followers who believe in his goals more than their own or anything else, making the comparison to the Akatsuki being like the SA during Hitler's rise to power in Germany after World War I, before he executed the Night of the Long Knives and had the SA leadership wiped out and replaced with the SS, true loyalists to his goals for "purification".

[BlueStarSaber]

So we have another ten tails, that needs explaining. Also looks like Kishimoto really does like using the rule of two when it comes to villains 

[BlueStarSaber]

https://youtu.be/UsyLwGdK2aE retrospect greg has done a new naruto video about its villains for anyone interested

[TheFirstEvil100]

Oh a very good vid, and so true.

[sushi.]

the best villain is masashi 

[Bail o' Lies]

https://youtu.be/UsyLwGdK2aE retrospect greg has done a new naruto video about its villains for anyone interested

The video is not bad but it needed more polish. One, he stumbles over his words a bit too much, two, it feels a bit unfocused, three, he doesn't clarify enough; feels like it relies a lot on the viewer already knowing what he is talking about, and four its kind of hard to figure out what his point was. Overall, what he saying isn't bad, it just feels like it was a first draft and need some editing.

 

the best villain is masashi 

Too lazy and weak willed to be a good villain. Look at the Naruto's Anime team instead.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 15 October 2021 - 02:55 AM.