43 replies to this topic

[Yyubie]

I remember one moment that makes Naruto really care about Sasuke :

 

 

I mean alright ... Naruto is like an empty cup and the first person that ever fill his cup is Princess Hina-... ehm .... i mean Iruka sensei and Sasuke. So this is the second time someone willing to die for him , that's why i totally understand if he think that he is a brother. BUT ... :

 

 

After this ... it should be over. Now i'm gonna preach just a little , in my opinion people change over time , i did too. Sasuke make his choice , the only thing Naruto should IF he really care about him is too put him down. Bottom line is after this there should be no more bonds ... it's over , the problem is Naruto and Sakura fall in love with the past , they refuse to grow up and moved on. Sakura fall in love with the memories of the bench scene while Naruto fall in love with the memories of that up there when Sasuke shield him against Haku attack.

 

In my opinion friends don't backstab you , don't betray you , don't hurt you. If the friend did one of those thing then that's not a friend. So if people said that Naruto and Sasuke relationship is force .... i'm kind of in a fence about that , there is one moment , so at least there is something. But it should be over and done with when he attempt to kill him and Sakura. Like i said Naruto and Sakura fall in love with memories they don't understand that people change over time. And i agree with you Nostradamus , the idea of friendship here is .... idiotic , moronic , and stupid just because the THEME of the story is to NEVER GIVE UP , so in Kishi's mind you should never give up on EVERYTHING , even if it's a tumor or cancer that you should cut off ... that's why it makes me mad!

Edited by Yyubie, 28 June 2019 - 02:54 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

I remember one moment that makes Naruto really care about Sasuke :

 

 

I mean alright ... Naruto is like an empty cup and the first person that ever fill his cup is Princess Hina-... ehm .... i mean Iruka sensei and Sasuke. So this is the second time someone willing to die for him , that's why i totally understand if he think that he is a brother. BUT ... :

 

 

After this ... it should be over. Now i'm gonna preach just a little , in my opinion people change over time , i did too. Sasuke make his choice , the only thing Naruto should IF he really care about him is too put him down. Bottom line is after this there should be no more bonds ... it's over , the problem is Naruto and Sakura fall in love with the past , they refuse to grow up and moved on. Sakura fall in love with the memories of the bench scene while Naruto fall in love with the memories of that up there when Sasuke shield him against Haku attack.

 

In my opinion friends don't backstab you , don't betray you , don't hurt you. If the friend did one of those thing then that's not a friend. So if people said that Naruto and Sasuke relationship is force .... i'm kind of in a fence about that , there is one moment , so at least there is something. But it should be over and done with when he attempt to kill him and Sakura. Like i said Naruto and Sakura fall in love with memories they don't understand that people change over time. And i agree with you Nostradamus , the idea of friendship here is .... idiotic , moronic , and stupid just because the THEME of the story is to NEVER GIVE UP , so in Kishi's mind you should never give up on EVERYTHING , even if it's a tumor or cancer that you should cut off ... that's why it makes me mad!

 

I guess his never give up theme was only used on convenience, the pussy gave up on everything else. The kitten gave up on the woman he truly loves, and couldn't even become Hokage on his own. 

[jak123]

Before. Oh and I don't believe she lied to him.

Yeah, I've seen that theory that she wasn't lying about liking him.

[tricksie]

So for me it was after Sakura's confession to Naruto, after she went to try to save Sasuke only to have Naruto have to save her.... It's that moment where Sakura says she 'just has to trust in them.' And Kakashi looks on proudly. This is just awful. All the momentum in the story up until that point is lost, and as a reader you're left going "Is Sasuke really the villain, or is Naruto just stupid?"

 

It destroys all of their characters in one go, and up until that moment, that long-awaited team reunion when things feel like they're finally getting somewhere, and then they all act totally counter to the things they'd sworn to do before. Sakura stepped out of her role to confront him, possible join him, and most certainly die with him or by him in a place far away from everything she's ever known. So she's totally brave. Kakashi is going to kill his student, says he won't make the same mistake as the Third (or references that his softness lead Orochimaru to kill more or something). So he's totally resolved. Then both give Sasuke a pass completely in the end.

 

And Naruto? Yeah, he's just awful in the bit. First crying about Sasuke, then blowing off Sakura's confession, then crying about Sasuke some more, then saving Sakura but still being crazy-focused on Sasuke....

 

After that section, I started thinking this story was maybe in trouble. And it was. That was the last part that seemed, to me, to be a long, planned out arc. The rest of it just seemed like little filler arcs until the big fights at the end. 

 

After that section, I never thought the story was being planned out or the characters had clear motivation. It had completely lost the spark that it had earlier on. 

 

For Sakura to say that now, after she'd come that far in the story, was so opposite of who she was, so much like Part 1 Sakura, that it was a shock. And I got the feeling that they wanted to make Naruto and Sasuke's rivalry/friendship look a lot less psychotic (Sasuke) or obsessive (Naruto)  than it was, so they used Sakura and Kakashi to act like this was all normal. Not gross. Not out of character. 

 

It felt like they basically threw out Sakura and Kakashi to save Naruto and Sasuke. And you know what, in the end, I was right. 

 

Before. Oh and I don't believe she lied to him.

Yeah, I don't think she lied either. I just think this was a one-sided confession that never gets a resolution to make it come full circle. It can only make Sakura look bad. Naruto never confesses back, and Sakura never further explains her clear feelings for him and how she supposedly lost them (if she ever did).

 

It's like how the ending of NaruHina makes Hinata's weak confession in front of Pain look like true love because the series ended in her favor. If it had ended with NaruSaku, then Hinata's confession would still look silly and irrational and immature and not used to justify some random ending they tacked on to satisfy the shippers.. 

[Phantom_999]

Yeah, I've seen that theory that she wasn't lying about liking him.

 

I made a post a while back addressing this topic but can't seem to find it so I'll try bring back my point as closely as possible to the original.

 

My question to anyone that BELIEVES that Sakura was lying to Naruto about falling in love with him is, "What was the point of lying to him about her love for him?" She had nothing to gain from lying to Naruto about something like that, and despite whatever supporters of that opinion may make up in their heads about the issue, "No, it was not to get Naruto to come back to village. Why? Since WHEN has Sakura ever needed to "shake her butt at Naruto", "jiggle her chest at Naruto", give "flirtatious looks to Naruto", etc. to get him to listen to her and do what she asks? I don't recall that ever, and I'm sure no one here does either. Sakura never needed to "seduce" Naruto to get his attention or accept her requests nor has Naruto ever been a horn dog that only listens to his (actual) best friend or even just heeded her words if she "blew kisses at him" or puts on the "you know you want some" act. Interactions between them have never been about that so why would she start then? If Sakura felt only friendship for Naruto after hearing about how much he loves her regardless I'd imagine that she would just tell him to not worry about his promise to her anymore and wouldn't bother to even falsely proclaim "how she all of a sudden fell for him".

 

I have also previously stated that  Sakura has never "put on an act" for anyone except from her fan girl days of trying to make herself as appealing to Sasuke as much as possible. But besides those times she was never someone that pretends to "be who she is not" nor pretends to "feel what she doesn't feel", especially to Naruto unless it is to protect HIS feelings or cheer him up when she is pretty down in the dumps her self. Can anyone here give solid evidence that Sakura is a "masterful actress" that can act like she feels something that she actually doesn't in serious and emotional situations? I personally can't recall myself.

 

Ultimately my point is, given the context of the situation and knowing the characters as well as we do, it is incredibly unlikely if not outright impossible for Sakura to FAKE falling in love with Naruto and I don't even think that was the intent. If it was, that would tarnish her character development and fans' perceptions of her even more.

Edited by Phantom_999, 04 October 2019 - 10:55 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

the thing that used to honestly piss me off the most was Sakura-Chan and the constant back and forth. She is shown to have growing feelings for Naruto, feelings that kept growing at a significant rate, only to have it ruined with Kishimoto still showing that she also wants to be with Sasuke romantically a few chapters later. It pissed me off.  I understand the whole, she doesn't realize Naruto is the one she loves yet thing. That is understandable. I understand that whatever kitten crush she had on Sasuke just couldn't be thrown away instantly, but at least make it to where we could see the crush CONSISTENTLY fading away over time, while we could see the love for Naruto growing.   

 

What isn't understandable is Kishimoto still showing her "feelings" for Sasuke to be on the same level and even higher than the feelings she has for Naruto, which is complete kitten to anyone with a brain who read the Manga. Pretty obvious, the feelings she was growing for Naruto surpassed whatever she felt for Sasuke by leaps and bounds. One chapter, she admits she loves Naruto( which I believe is true.) She hugs him, feels jealousy at Hinata trying to protect him, offers to feed him, she even accepted going on a date with him after the timeskip. Yet, a few chapters later, the minute she sees Sasuke, it's like none of those moments with Naruto ever happened. Makes me mad.  And that was the tip of the iceberg. 

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 29 June 2019 - 06:41 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Like I said  the feelings she has shown to develop for Naruto is what you see and want in a real life relationship (if you want an equal and emotionally healthy one that is). They are both happy and comfortable around each other, can open themselves emotionally without fear of being judged and have stuck together through thick and thin without their relationship being damaged. In contrast what are her feelings for Sasuke? That he was the cool, sexy, quiet, bad boy? and what happened in Part II/ Shippuden? Thinking about him only puts her into depression and emotional distress. She CRIES when she thinks about him, and her only fond memories are of his twelve year old self. YET the executives pressure Kishi (if Kishi himself was not gunning for this garbage writing) to keep this up as true love just to milk this god forsaken love triangle all the way to the end of the series when ANYONE and I MEAN ANYONE with some sort of emotional understanding of relationships and actual real life love, if not that then at least knows about fictional romance writing and cues call B*!! $H^@ on Sakura feeling anything of the sort regarding Sasuke. Hell, FIVE YEAR OLDS COULD FIGURE OUT that what Sakura felt back then was not love. 

Edited by Phantom_999, 01 July 2019 - 05:25 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

I know another moment... when Hinata said that Naruto's hand was warm after Neji's death.

[Nostradamus]

I know another moment... when Hinata said that Naruto's hand was warm after Neji's death.

I have so many bad words to describe her, but they are not allowed XD.

So I'm just going to say she's a horrible person. Literally the worst.

Her cousin just died to save her worthless existence and all she could do is have an orgasm.

[tricksie]

I know another moment... when Hinata said that Naruto's hand was warm after Neji's death.

ugh...so gross. 

[Phantom_999]

What is MORE GROSS is the fact that THAT VERY MOMENT cemented Hinata as "the useless, squeaky, single minded, obsessive fan girl" that all haters of Sakura accused Sakura of being all these years, BUT HINATA GETS A PASS FOR IT. And that is the ultimate disgusting thing about that moment. That was all of Hinata's potential for growth and to become MORE than "a smitten Naruto fan girl", to have a motivation to fight besides "I want to stand beside my hunky, vicariously self confident man candy", gone. ALL of that went down the drain for this cheap, ill timed and ill mannered shipping moment with Naruto that all of NH shippers eat up like a "world class gourmet cake", not caring that Hinata becoming a fleshed out and more interesting character "died" with that bit of dialogue spoken, and all because Naruto practically proposed to her in their heads

Edited by Phantom_999, 02 July 2019 - 12:18 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Hmm....everyone brings up good points.

So I propose this idea.

The plot jumped the Shark when Edo Tensei Itachi ran across Sasuke in the forest and the plot just took a nose dive in convenience. Sure, we had plot induced stupidity before and asspulls and such, but this kind of just went out of left field with rapid fire back to back asspulls and characters just spinning in circles for stalling tactics rather than anything else. Madara and Kaguya just made it worse, but I believe the ET Itachi was the point of no return the "So that's what they are going with" plot. The point where nothing was irredeemable and no amount of excuses could make the plot better.

Character development jumping the shark happened much earlier. Naruto lost all credibility with him begging for Sasuke and even hyperventilating and passing out like a b----

It's sad because after a while we knew that Naruto and Sasuke where never going to change til the very end because that was foretold. It sucks, but the development was going to remained stagnant...too bad the other characters suffered the same.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 11 July 2019 - 12:10 AM.

[Derock]

I know another moment... when Hinata said that Naruto's hand was warm after Neji's death.

 

Oh, yes. That moment that made all of NH fanbase on a crazy spree during a tragic scene. What's even worse, we lost Neji, a great character over that.

[Phantom_999]

Hmm....everyone brings up good points.

So I propose this idea.

The plot jumped the Shark when Edo Tensei Itachi ran across Sasuke in the forest and the plot just took a nose dive in convenience. Sure, we had plot induced stupidity before and asspulls and such, but this kind of just went out of left field with rapid fire back to back asspulls and characters just spinning in circles for stalling tactics rather than anything else. Madara and Kaguya just made it worse, but I believe the ET Itachi was the point of no return the "So that's what they are going with" plot. The point where nothing was irredeemable and no amount of excuses could make the plot better.

Character development jumping the shark happened much earlier. Naruto lost all credibility with him begging for Sasuke and even hyperventilating and passing out like a b----

It's sad because after a while we knew that Naruto and Sasuke where never going to change til the very end because that was foretold. It sucks, but the development was going to remind stagnant...too bad the other characters suffered the same.
 

 

that I can agree with. In fact the entire ET Itachi screwed everything up because....... well there is so much to say on that so let me gather my thoughts on it first

[Nate River]

ugh...so gross.

Well, Neji does mean screw, which makes him the most appropriately named character in the series. He died for that and got screwed by being the only rookie to lose his plot armor.

[Gravenimage]

Everything went wrong in Naruto when he was declared to be the "child of prophecy". The whole" chosen one hero" is too cliched it should have never been brought in the series. Naruto was supposed to be a dead last who will rise to the top through hard work and determination (I never minded he was the son of the Fourth Hokage because everyone knew from the very start). But that was it before the Pain invasion arc the story started falling apart. And after that, it got worse with the kage summit and the whole Sasuke BS drama. 

[jak123]

Everything went wrong in Naruto when he was declared to be the "child of prophecy". The whole" chosen one hero" is too cliched it should have never been brought in the series. Naruto was supposed to be a dead last who will rise to the top through hard work and determination (I never minded he was the son of the Fourth Hokage because everyone knew from the very start). But that was it before the Pain invasion arc the story started falling apart. And after that, it got worse with the kage summit and the whole Sasuke BS drama. 

I wouldn't have minded the "child of prophecy" if Naruto hadn't become such a joke in Boruto. Though, the prophecy thing didn't need the addition of him being the reincarnation of the son of the Sage of the 6 paths.

[catsi563]

I woulnt have minded it either if Naruto had done what TE had him do in one of her stories,. Basically tell the sage of 6 paths where exactly he could stick his destiny, He was naruto and he was going to do it his way and if he didnt like it then F him

 

Such a big deal was made about bucking destiny with Neji and it should have kept to that

 

The Idiot Ball   the story in question

Edited by catsi563, 03 July 2019 - 04:56 PM.

[lupina]

 

My question to anyone that BELIEVES that Sakura was lying to Naruto about falling in love with him is, "What was the point of lying to him about her love for him?"

 

Emotional manipulation. This is evil, even if she thought she was doing this for his own good.

This scene was just horrible and an unreasonable attempt on destroying Narutos' and Sakuras' Relationship, implying that their is a fundamental lack of trust, honesty and (platonic) intimacy between those two that forced Sakura to act the way she did.

 

This was just so painful.

[BlueStarSaber]

 
Emotional manipulation. This is evil, even if she thought she was doing this for his own good.
This scene was just horrible and an unreasonable attempt on destroying Narutos' and Sakuras' Relationship, implying that their is a fundamental lack of trust, honesty and (platonic) intimacy between those two that forced Sakura to act the way she did.
 
This was just so painful.

Yeah I don't think sakura was trying to manipulate naruto here with his feelings, given how angry she got when he accused her of lying.