1 - I guess I'd need more information on Naruto's character and abilities, that you feel are retconned. I'll give you the kage bunshin but that's not a deal breaker for me.
2- How did they make Hinata pathetic?
3- As far as the scarf thing goes. I personally think the scarf reaching out to Naruto was more a visual metaphor for love and the red thread that is starting to connect them. Just as the scarf is described later as a metaphor for Hinata's love for Naruto. Also, Naruto never chokes, so I wouldn't call it "choking him."Remember, in film, not every visual is meant to be taken literally. At the end they show them holding hands at different ages. That doesn't mean they're actually de- and re-aging.
4- The genjutsu itself is a memories trap, but Shikamaru also described it as a trap of "caged" memories. Naruto may not have always known. He isn't a dolt but he isn't super perceptive of everything outside of ninjutsu skills. Also, we didn't just look into Naruto's memories, but they also showed Hinata's memories. Showing us both their memories separately. Again, I was never 100% anti-NaruHina so this is more agreeable for me. I've known plenty of friends who have gotten together after one who was completely oblivious to the other's feelings for them suddenly figures it out.
5- There is no factual evidence that shows Naruto absolutely did not love Hinata. It is never stated. All implications for or against NaruHina are purely subjective. That Naruto admits that he has feelings for Hinata is what cements or disregards any romantic moments in the manga.
1 - The kage bushin is pretty a big deal. Naruto isn't supposed to know KB at the time and yet he knows...this shows that either the staff who wrote that movie lacked communication witht he author or the author simply didn't care
There is still, Naruto somehow breathing in space without any given explanation and Kurama leaving Naruto's body for some reason and this not affecting him in any shape or form
2-Hinata, by the end of the war arc, had developed into someone that by her own words would "not shy away and walk by Naruto's side", now look at the beginning of the movie, does it look like that little development she had in the war arc mattered? I don't think so
Add this to the fact that in most of the movie Hinata forgets she is a ninja and looks more like some random filler princess and you get how pathetic she was
3-Now you are just excusing the movie....c'mon, how the hell does a scarf gaining consicousness in that situation makes sense in any shape or form?
There is a limit in the degree of how visual metaphors can be used y' know? A lot of series can use this element in a good manner but the last just outright blew this limit with this scene alone.
4- caged memories = memory trap and either way, doesn't matter...there is still no explanation on why Naruto experienced Hinata's memories and was guilt tripped by them...and another thing, Naruto knew Hinata loved him, she was painfully clear during the pein arc even sacrificing herself for it, this movie says that Naruto at the time thought that her love for him was like his love for food or something like that which completely retcons Naruto's emotional knowledge, a thing that even early part '1 estabilished he had, so in manga canon no, Naruto wasn't oblivious to Hinata's feelings he just didn't returned them, but the movie changed it so because reasons and really this isn't a matter of being anti NH or not, it's a matter of being faithful to the manga as the last is a canon movie.
Honestly not even people who like NH should like the last, the movie trashes the pairing and most of the things they argued during the manga
So I'm clueless of how you not hating NH in first place affects your view, if anything you should be disappointed in how the pairing was treated
5-Naruto never showed any kind of interest in Hinata in the manga even after her confession, in the movie he remains oblivious until a genjutsu retcons him into a guilt state and after that he begins showing interest on her. The flashbacks due to the genjutsu don't even hint on his own feelings, they just show Hinata's feelings for him during time and then he feels guilt and begins seeing her in a different light , it's ridiculous and honestly it's beyond me how can someone accept such contrived reslution of a romantic plot line
6- Do you mean emotional idiot who doesn't understand love or is not perceptvie of it? This is a popular trope of a lot of romance/action/humor anime. It's often done for humor. It didn't irk me.
That's the thing though. Naruto knew Hinata loved him from the manga, it's unbelievable stupid he would think otherwise even after Hinata sacrificing herself for him yet hte movie goes on and retcons this. He also isn't an emotional idiot who doesn't know what love is, his interactions with his mom, Sakura and all of his other loved ones should show this.
Doesn't matter if it is a ppular trope or not, it wasn't done right if we consider that the last is canon ( as we should)
Your main mistake is because in most of your arguments you try to consider the thing as it's own standalon which isn't the case
7 - Time does not always equate better quality. They could've gotten the crappy team of animators and regardless of time it wouldn't have been as good. I have nothing against the quality of RtN, I just think this one has some of the best in the movie series. And it isn't just the animation/ art style. It's the amount of time they linger on some shots without dialogue, its the sequences they blend together (I liked how the genjutsu/ memory trap was sequenced)
7- Time does not always equate beter quality....but it helps a lot. The main problem with the animation in animes is the time limit, most people who work on the studios have to run against their schedules to make the drawings on time, that's why an anime series doesn't have the same quality as an anime movie...because people who are working on the movies have way more times on their hands to polish their animations, etc.
Anyway about the last technical aspects, that's your opinion, many people found the direction messy especially in the beginning with the sudden transitions.
For me at least they did a nice job, the animation is nice and fluid and even though the direction has some mistakes here and there, it's pretty consistent. The last main problem is the plot and how it relates to the original material
8- Idiot how? / 9- Could you be more specific?
8- Naruto: "Even though she pratically sacrificed her life for me, I somehow think she loves me like I love Ramen... even if before in the original series I showed a natural ability in indicating what other people were feeling! 
"
9- Already talked about Hinata up there
10 - People are multi-faceted. He was out for 3 days and then sulked for a day or two. I hardly call that a long time, especially for someone who finally admits to being in love with someone in person, and then having them leave, all in the span of a few minutes. He isn't a person made of stone who just keeps moving forward all the time. He gets hurt and that can take time to deal with. When he first caught up with Sasuke at Orochimaru's hide out post time-skip both he and Sakura had a breakdown, without further pursuit. Sai snapped them out of it. Different situations hurt differently and take more or less time based on the depth they feel about it. Unlike most of the losses he suffered in the manga, he can't just beat up someone and have his way when Hinata chooses to go with Toneri.
10- The main reason that doesn't makes sense is because it doesn't fit with his character. Naruto was a guy that always took a hit and got back up with renewed vigor. In the last the problem is not him giving up, the problem is why he gave up...because Hinata rejected him...lol
This is the guy that kept his "get Sasuke back" mantra even Sasuke blew him off multiple times, the only time he ultimately felt desperation was after learning the extent of Sasuke's crimes in the Kage Summit arc and not seeing any way out of it.
In the last however he gets all mad and angry because the girl he began crushing on after a contrived genjutsu realization rejected him to go with the villain for no clear reason, he gives up on everything, on the world even just because of this...then he only gets better after Sakura pep talks him and assures him that Hinata returns his feelings, lol just lol
If the canon naruto from the old manga was in the same situation of the last Naruto, what do you think he'd do? throw a fit like an angry man child or psych it up to get to Hinata and the Tony guy and demand an explanation? I understand that SP probably wanted to put something as Naruto's despair event horizon in the movie, the problem is that they did it worng, the motivations and the resolutions of the event were contrived, forced and from a cohesive point it just didn't work. The only way for someone to enjoy what happened in that scene is by forgetting from the manga and shutting of their brains
There is a reason why people in japan called Naruto a scumbag because of this scene
11- In the version I read she states he's always getting in the way when she does something important, enjoys seeing her struggle, doesn't understand anything about her and is annoying. I don't think this makes any of that true.
11- Sakura says Naruto's whole point was to annoy her and disrupt her "love" life, turns out ( considering the last) she was talking the truth because Naruto only saw her as a prize worth taking to one up his rival Sasuke
This is even kind of hypocrite of Sakura to say since her situation with Ino and Sasuke is basically about rivalry too, while Naruto never liked Sakura because of rivalry (at least in the original story without retcons)
12- This makes the movie bad?
12- No, but it is a retcon and basically shows that either
a) Kishi didn't care
b) lack of conversation between the one who wrote the movie and Kishi
It also serves to show how much the last is a mess regarding the manga canon even in the little details
13- I don't understand why this is a point of contention with people who don't like the movie. I'm just stating it has good animation/ art. So what if it had two years? That doesn't take away from the fact that it is good and that it is some of the best in the series of Naruto films. Who knows if the other ones could've been better. The point is that they aren't all better and I enjoy the one in this one because I think it's good.
13- Nobody here is denying that the last didn''t had an acceptable animation
People are just saying that it was expected because htey had time to work on the project thus it's nothing surprising or groundbreaking in the franchise like what you're trying to say
And in the end the good animation doesn't save the lst of it's own shortcomings
RtN had a crappy animation and it was still a good movie with a fair decent plot exploring naruto's family, but why did it had crappy animation? Because they had little time for RtN, since the original movie was going to be the Chikara arc, however they decided to change and go with RtN's plot instead
time is an essential factor when making animations, even more so than talent dare I say
14- Are the romantic moments cringeworthy because they are or because you don't like NaruHina?
14- They're awkward because they're poorly done, stupid things like Hinata falling even though she is a ninja, the spider web kitten, naruto getting water in hiuss hands for hinata to drink for some obscure reason...
the producers were clearly trying to make the moments romantic, but they failed and it looked forced and cringeworthy for anyone who is not completely blinded by the NH pairing
honestly those moments looked like they were taken off from a bad NH fanfic
Edited by Nar123, 14 August 2015 - 03:37 PM.
Persona 5 hype 
