71 replies to this topic

[NarutoUzumaki01]

I stumbled on some discussion of Naruto on other forum, and there was question "Did Sasuke loved Sakura from beginning?", and my reaction was: 

Manga is finished, and to future generations it will be as granted how it ended, no suspense or anything like that. Personaly I was shocked that people even qeustions something like that. For majority of people it was obvious that there was nothing betwen those 2 characters. But now, after ending, new readers starts to ask such questions. My question is, what will be a % of new readers that will read manga from a same angle as did we fellow members of this site and old majority that disliked ending?

[TouKen4Life3g]

The Victor writes the history.

[Legend054]

Boruto sucks

[Dalton.T.R]

Boruto sucks

Now, now. No need to insult manga that already suck. Boruto is on floor -666 compared to them.  

[My Living Curse]

Boruto sucks

 

Now, now. No need to insult manga that already suck. Boruto is on floor -666 compared to them.  

 

Don't worry it's on its way!

 

 

I love whoever made this. It's just perfect! 

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Firstly: The majority did not dislike the ending.

Fight me, it did.

The Victor writes the history.

Sad but true.

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 22 September 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[lupina]

Remember the Anti-Hinata Threads who spawned like mushrooms after the release of chapter 699-700?

[Bail o' Lies]

I stumbled on some discussion of Naruto on other forum, and there was question "Did Sasuke loved Sakura from beginning?", and my reaction was: 

Manga is finished, and to future generations it will be as granted how it ended, no suspense or anything like that. Personaly I was shocked that people even qeustions something like that. For majority of people it was obvious that there was nothing betwen those 2 characters. But now, after ending, new readers starts to ask such questions. My question is, what will be a % of new readers that will read manga from a same angle as did we fellow members of this site and old majority that disliked ending?

Remember not even ten chapters before the ending; he knocked her out with an illusion where he both called her an annoyance, and stab her in the chest with a chidori. Then he went on a quick speech about how he didn't even understand what she likes about him, he doesn't care about her, and he thinks she lives in a dream world if she thinks he has feeling for him. Then he lost his arm, had a chapter worth of thoughts of why Naruto is so important to him, and then the next chapter vaguely apologized to Sakura. That's apparently how he "fell in love with her" in the manga.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 22 September 2017 - 12:29 PM.

[NarutoUzumaki01]

The annoyance line parallels with his much earlier departure. Matching this with his off remarks, you can infer he is not being honest. 
 
 
I will "fight you", but what exactly are you using as measurement that the majority did not like it? 
 
Are you using polls of various people who voted on the chapter's quality? 
 
https://myanimelist....topicid=1303031
 
https://narutobase.n...ad.php?t=605199
 
Not the only ones. Personally I see about a 75% average of OK-to Great on non-shipping sites with such available polls., and 25% dislike. In no shape or form a "majority". Heck, even if we skew OK towards dislike, it never takes more than 50% of the pie.
 
Are we using the success of the last volume as measurement? As I showcased in another thread: 
 
Naruto in 2008 highest selling volume (43) 1,188,881
Naruto in 2011 highest selling volume (61) 1,281,309
Naruto in 2014 (Actually published in 2015) highest selling volume (72) 1,324,693
 
Or are we using the movies?
 
Oh, those did better than it's predecessors too. If I recall, Boruto exceeded 2 billion yen, the Last was just below or at 2 billion and RNJ was around 1.5 or so, which exceeded all of the prior movies before it. All three of these films did well. 
 
We can't go ask every Naruto reader in the world to leave their thoughts. But I have supported my argument with both data from polls who have selected to make their thoughts known, and the financial success of the latter material. 
 
See, I like the ending. You could call me a "Pro-Ender". It's not as bad as it used to be, but scouring NS stuff often brings up end complaints from some member of the anti sub-group of the fandom, be it tumblr, fan-fiction, facebook, here, etc. I used to say nothing and just do my thing, but it gets tiring to hear the same things, especially the false information. So I'm tackling this one. And I'm providing sources right off the bat for those who say I don't. 
 
So I ask you, what back up do you have to your claim? I am willing to listen.

Ain't nobody got time for that, lol.
As far as I remember, there we're tons of anti-ending topics on japanese sites, how much last earned was compared to road to ninja, and due to course of yen it was lower than rnj, as far as I can remember, that may have changed. I wrote my opinion, if you perceiving it as absolute truth, you're wrong, it's just my opinion, don't bother trying to change it.

 

Main question of this topic is not how many people disliked ending, and I won't argue with you about that. "Fight me" was sarcastic, I already read dozen of your posts, and not intrested in pointless arguing about who, where and did what. You gave your answer on topic, thank you for participating 

Edited by NarutoUzumaki01, 22 September 2017 - 01:54 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

The annoyance line parallels with his much earlier departure. Matching this with his off remarks, you can infer he is not being honest. 

Yes, it does but it does not mean he is not being honest in this situation. It is to show the differences between those two, actually three situation where he calls her annoying. In the first one that happened in chapter three he did it because he was enraged and offended by her comments on having children being raised without no parents, which may have been directed to Naruto could also be said towards him. The second one he is friendlier to her because he is recalling the earlier scene, which he still considers her annoying, and ends with a thank you for all the good times everyone had in team 7. But this scene is also the end of SS bond because Sakura was not able to convince him to do anything, and in Japanese culture saying thank you to a confession means the same as saying no. That is why in the third scene he called instead of just annoying instead an annoyance, and again knocks her out with a graphic illusion and then goes of on how her feeling for him are ridiculous.

[Nate River]

 

The annoyance line parallels with his much earlier departure. Matching this with his off remarks, you can infer he is not being honest. 

 

 

I will "fight you", but what exactly are you using as measurement that the majority did not like it? 

 

Are you using polls of various people who voted on the chapter's quality? 

 

https://myanimelist....topicid=1303031

 

https://narutobase.n...ad.php?t=605199

 

Not the only ones. Personally I see about a 75% average of OK-to Great on non-shipping sites with such available polls., and 25% dislike. In no shape or form a "majority". Heck, even if we skew OK towards dislike, it never takes more than 50% of the pie.

 

Are we using the success of the last volume as measurement? As I showcased in another thread: 

 

Naruto in 2008 highest selling volume (43) 1,188,881

Naruto in 2011 highest selling volume (61) 1,281,309

Naruto in 2014 (Actually published in 2015) highest selling volume (72) 1,324,693

 

Or are we using the movies?

 

Oh, those did better than it's predecessors too. If I recall, Boruto exceeded 2 billion yen, the Last was just below or at 2 billion and RNJ was around 1.5 or so, which exceeded all of the prior movies before it. All three of these films did well. 

 

We can't go ask every Naruto reader in the world to leave their thoughts. But I have supported my argument with both data from polls who have selected to make their thoughts known, and the financial success of the latter material. 

 

See, I like the ending. You could call me a "Pro-Ender". It's not as bad as it used to be, but scouring NS stuff often brings up end complaints from some member of the anti sub-group of the fandom, be it tumblr, fan-fiction, facebook, here, etc. I used to say nothing and just do my thing, but it gets tiring to hear the same things, especially the false information. So I'm tackling this one. And I'm providing sources right off the bat for those who say I don't. 

 

So I ask you, what back up do you have to your claim? I am willing to listen. 

 

I don't particularly care whether it was well-received or not, but I would note that those polls in particular are so limiting that they are virtually worthless as as measuring devices. 

[BlackShirtGuy]

Anybody ever noticed how every thread Analyzer posts in, turns into a pairings discussion?

Also, something just ocurred to me, Sasuke didn't do ANYTHING remotely nice for Sakura since the chuunin exams, in fact the nicest thing he ever did for her in shippuden was mind crushing her instead of killing her(I'm not even counting the stupid headpat and """"apology"""" because they were bull), I wonder if it was because he was scared of what Naruto would do to him if he did? poor Sasuke if only he had know Naruto never cared for Sakura, he would've killed her and made an overpowered child with Karin, what a wasted opportunity..

[My Living Curse]

Anybody ever noticed how every thread Analyzer posts in, turns into a pairings discussion?

Also, something just ocurred to me, Sasuke didn't do ANYTHING remotely nice for Sakura since the chuunin exams, in fact the nicest thing he ever did for her in shippuden was mind crushing her instead of killing her(I'm not even counting the stupid headpat and """"apology"""" because they were bull), I wonder if it was because he was scared of what Naruto would do to him if he did? poor Sasuke if only he had know Naruto never cared for Sakura, he would've killed her and made an overpowered child with Karin, what a wasted opportunity..

 

1) Yep pretty much accurate.

 

2) I guess not outright slaughtering her could be counted, but Naruto is usually there to save her life or comfort her.

 

Besides as much as we hate the guy, he still speaks the most honest words ever:

 

"Was she having fun in her little MAKE-BELIEVE FANTASY of true love?

 

"As for me, I have ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO LOVE HER and likewise I can see NO REASON why she would love me."

 

 

I mean seriously did people ever pass 3rd grade reading comprehension class?

[NarutoUzumaki01]

Anybody ever noticed how every thread Analyzer posts in, turns into a pairings discussion?

Also, something just ocurred to me, Sasuke didn't do ANYTHING remotely nice for Sakura since the chuunin exams, in fact the nicest thing he ever did for her in shippuden was mind crushing her instead of killing her(I'm not even counting the stupid headpat and """"apology"""" because they were bull), I wonder if it was because he was scared of what Naruto would do to him if he did? poor Sasuke if only he had know Naruto never cared for Sakura, he would've killed her and made an overpowered child with Karin, what a wasted opportunity..

This is what surprised me, asking was he in love with her from the start, when even in the end it's just told that they have kid, nothing is shown, just implied, and people guess that he showed some signs befere ending.

[Dalton.T.R]

We've all seen how accurate polls are in the recent past *cough presidential election *cough* *cough* 

 

Sorry, everyone. Changing seasons and all that. My allergies don't like it, so I've been fighting this cough for a few days now. 

Edited by Dalton.T.R, 22 September 2017 - 10:59 PM.

[Nate River]

Anybody ever noticed how every thread Analyzer posts in, turns into a pairings discussion?

Also, something just ocurred to me, Sasuke didn't do ANYTHING remotely nice for Sakura since the chuunin exams, in fact the nicest thing he ever did for her in shippuden was mind crushing her instead of killing her(I'm not even counting the stupid headpat and """"apology"""" because they were bull), I wonder if it was because he was scared of what Naruto would do to him if he did? poor Sasuke if only he had know Naruto never cared for Sakura, he would've killed her and made an overpowered child with Karin, what a wasted opportunity..

 

I doubt that he cared what Naruto thought.

 

Also, I can't see how we could get bent out of shape about SS over the fact that Sasuke mind raped her and then push SK. He left Karin for dead (after stabbing her himself) and abandoned her when she needed him most. It makes no sense to argue the former and then push the later.

 

I hate SS, but at least it saved us from SK.

 

 

We've all seen how accurate polls are in the recent past *cough presidential election *cough* *cough* 

 

Sorry, everyone. Changing seasons and all that. My allergies don't like it, so I've been fighting this cough for a few days now.

 

Let's steer clear of politics outside of the politics thread. 

 

Besides the problem with the presidential poles and the problem with the ones in this thread aren't the same. The polls cited here are an accurate representation of what they show: what the people who voted in them thought. Their weakness is small sample size and obvious no ability (or intent) to control for things like selection bias (on at least two different leaves). Toss the poll on this site and I bet the result changes, but would be equally worthless for the same reasons. The volume/movie sales are a bit more persuasive, but also suffer from limitations such as an assumption that one who buys the recent volume must like the ending. Maybe they like everything else and simply tolerate the ending. We don't know nor do we know the actual size of the fandom (which can significantly skew the numbers if the different between dates is large enough). There simple isn't enough information to tell.

 

There you guys go. Those are things you can ask. Of course, now if you want to argue its was poorly received data to that effect would help. That analyzer's data is limited (and therefore not conclusive) is not the same as saying it was poorly received. As I said, I don't care enough to track that stuff down. You guys are on your own for that.

 

I don't personally understand why people care so much. (a) That it's popular doesn't mean its good and (b) who cares, aside from validation, who cares what they think? Given what people say about pro-enders, NH, SS etc....why would anyone care about validation from people posters obviously hold in contempt? I don't understand.

[Dalton.T.R]

 

I doubt that he cared what Naruto thought.

 

Also, I can't see how we could get bent out of shape about SS over the fact that Sasuke mind raped her and then push SK. He left Karin for dead (after stabbing her himself) and abandoned her when she needed him most. It makes no sense to argue the former and then push the later.

 

I hate SS, but at least it saved us from SK.

 

 

 

Let's steer clear of politics outside of the politics thread. 

 

Besides the problem with the presidential poles and the problem with the ones in this thread aren't the same. The polls cited here are an accurate representation of what they show: what the people who voted in them thought. Their weakness is small sample size and obvious no ability (or intent) to control for things like selection bias (on at least two different leaves). Toss the poll on this site and I bet the result changes, but would be equally worthless for the same reasons. The volume/movie sales are a bit more persuasive, but also suffer from limitations such as an assumption that one who buys the recent volume must like the ending. Maybe they like everything else and simply tolerate the ending. We don't know nor do we know the actual size of the fandom (which can significantly skew the numbers if the different between dates is large enough). There simple isn't enough information to tell.

 

There you guys go. Those are things you can ask. Of course, now if you want to argue its was poorly received data to that effect would help. That analyzer's data is limited (and therefore not conclusive) is not the same as saying it was poorly received. As I said, I don't care enough to track that stuff down. You guys are on your own for that.

 

I don't personally understand why people care so much. (a) That it's popular doesn't mean its good and (b) who cares, aside from validation, who cares what they think? Given what people say about pro-enders, NH, SS etc....why would anyone care about validation from people posters obviously hold in contempt? I don't understand.

Sorry. Bad attempt at a joke right there.

[Nate River]

Sorry. Bad attempt at a joke right there.

 

I know, I'm not mad. However, even when it's off hand, jokes like that can derail threads.

[BlackShirtGuy]

 

I doubt that he cared what Naruto thought.

 

Also, I can't see how we could get bent out of shape about SS over the fact that Sasuke mind raped her and then push SK. He left Karin for dead (after stabbing her himself) and abandoned her when she needed him most. It makes no sense to argue the former and then push the later.

 

I hate SS, but at least it saved us from SK.

I was speaking more among the lines of "Sasuke knew that Naruto would maybe try to kill him if he killed Sakura since he had no reason, to" therefore he avoided killing her so Naruto wouldn't go all in against him, altough knowing how Naruto (the manga and character) forgives pretty much everything, It's just a headcanon I thought of more than a theory.
Regarding SK, let's be real, for me at least, all pairings that that include Sasuke in them are just completely a fanon thing, that's just because Sasuke isn't written in a way that he cares about other people and bonds, the very moment he was presented with a choice for vengance or builiding a future for him, he immediatly choosed vengance without NEVER looking back on it, that type of person can NEVER form a meaningful relationship, much less a TRUE bond. In fact regarding SNS, the basis for their bond is merely "we have a similiar past, and we could've enden in the other's situation", that's pretty much it, any reasonable person would give up on Sasuke the moment he tried to kill the person the he/she loves, however Naruto said himself he preffered being an idiot for life at the end of part 1 (and BOY, was he ABSOLUTELY right about that).
Also, I disagree with the fact that SK is worse than SS, merely because at the very least Karin crush on Sasuke was given a reason , unlike SS, don't get me wrong, as I said before both pairings are definetly bull, but SK at least had some foundation, the "foundation" for SS is the same as SasuXIno SasuXrandomgirl SasuXTenTen SasuXfSasuke's Nº1 Fangirl , you get my drift.

[Kagomaru]

 

I doubt that he cared what Naruto thought.

 

Also, I can't see how we could get bent out of shape about SS over the fact that Sasuke mind raped her and then push SK. He left Karin for dead (after stabbing her himself) and abandoned her when she needed him most. It makes no sense to argue the former and then push the later.

 

I hate SS, but at least it saved us from SK.

 

 

 

Let's steer clear of politics outside of the politics thread. 

 

Besides the problem with the presidential poles and the problem with the ones in this thread aren't the same. The polls cited here are an accurate representation of what they show: what the people who voted in them thought. Their weakness is small sample size and obvious no ability (or intent) to control for things like selection bias (on at least two different leaves). Toss the poll on this site and I bet the result changes, but would be equally worthless for the same reasons. The volume/movie sales are a bit more persuasive, but also suffer from limitations such as an assumption that one who buys the recent volume must like the ending. Maybe they like everything else and simply tolerate the ending. We don't know nor do we know the actual size of the fandom (which can significantly skew the numbers if the different between dates is large enough). There simple isn't enough information to tell.

 

There you guys go. Those are things you can ask. Of course, now if you want to argue its was poorly received data to that effect would help. That analyzer's data is limited (and therefore not conclusive) is not the same as saying it was poorly received. As I said, I don't care enough to track that stuff down. You guys are on your own for that.

 

I don't personally understand why people care so much. (a) That it's popular doesn't mean its good and (b) who cares, aside from validation, who cares what they think? Given what people say about pro-enders, NH, SS etc....why would anyone care about validation from people posters obviously hold in contempt? I don't understand.

 

I was speaking more among the lines of "Sasuke knew that Naruto would maybe try to kill him if he killed Sakura since he had no reason, to" therefore he avoided killing her so Naruto wouldn't go all in against him, altough knowing how Naruto (the manga and character) forgives pretty much everything, It's just a headcanon I thought of more than a theory.
Regarding SK, let's be real, for me at least, all pairings that that include Sasuke in them are just completely a fanon thing, that's just because Sasuke isn't written in a way that he cares about other people and bonds, the very moment he was presented with a choice for vengance or builiding a future for him, he immediatly choosed vengance without NEVER looking back on it, that type of person can NEVER form a meaningful relationship, much less a TRUE bond. In fact regarding SNS, the basis for their bond is merely "we have a similiar past, and we could've enden in the other's situation", that's pretty much it, any reasonable person would give up on Sasuke the moment he tried to kill the person the he/she loves, however Naruto said himself he preffered being an idiot for life at the end of part 1 (and BOY, was he ABSOLUTELY right about that).
Also, I disagree with the fact that SK is worse than SS, merely because at the very least Karin crush on Sasuke was given a reason , unlike SS, don't get me wrong, as I said before both pairings are definetly bull, but SK at least had some foundation, the "foundation" for SS is the same as SasuXIno SasuXrandomgirl SasuXTenTen SasuXfSasuke's Nº1 Fangirl , you get my drift.

Exactly.  I don't support SK, but it has more of a foundation than SS (with Sasuke at least pretending to give an iota of a damn about Karin if only for his own use, which is infinitely more than what can he's shown towards Sakura) and no one would question it if it had happened in canon.  It would still be as toxic and twisted as Harley Quinn x Joker, but it would make sense.

Edited by Kagomaru, 23 September 2017 - 02:50 AM.